Showing posts with label pentecostals. Show all posts
Showing posts with label pentecostals. Show all posts

Friday, February 16, 2007

Be Careful What You Pray For...

Well folks, the same group of people who are constantly calling for having God put into politics, are now engaged in prayers, because of God being part of politics.

Uzbec map from CIA's World FactsOfficials in Uzbekistan have arrested Dmitry Shestakov (a.k.a. Pastor David), a Pentecostal preacher for inciting religious hatred, insulting Islam and distributing banned literature. Evangelical leaders in Uzbekistan, and elsewhere are crying foul saying that Shestakov's arrest is part of a pattern of religious intolerance by the government of this predominantly Islamic nation.

The Russian Orthodox Church is recognized by and registered with the government, as are some other Christian groups, but according to the Uzbek authorities, Shestakov was preaching without permission.

While I, by no means, support arresting people because of their religion, Uzbekistan's government and religious leaders make some good points about Shestakov and his ilk.

Some of Uzbekistan's Imams feel that Shestakov's arrest is a good thing because he and other pentecostal missionaries "set out their traps and our young people fall into them. We must punish in the harshest way those who poison the minds of our youth." Uzbek government spokesmen have questioned Shestakov’s being a real pastor because, "Earlier he abused alcohol and was dependent on drugs and now he presents himself as pastor David."

These claims have been confirmed by Shestakov's wife who also added that the good pastor had been in prison "several times." It has also been confirmed that Shestakov has been officially warned twice before about his "illegal religious activities."

The only person who has been allowed to see the pastor is his personal lawyer. According to Shestakov's followers his getting his own lawyer instead of a state appointed lawyer was in answer to their prayers. They didn't say why they didn't just get him released by praying for that.

Let me reiterate that I don't favor religious oppression, but if Pentecostals and other Evangelicals are going to rant and rave about having religion in government then they should shut up, and obey the laws put in place when a god is put into government. It is this exact type of situation that Jefferson saw happening in the American colonies and was trying to avoid by "building a wall of separation between Church & State." A wall which American Evangelicals are constantly trying to tear down.

Of course the issue here for Evangelicals would seem to be that it is not necessarily religious oppression that is the issue, but rather that this time they aren't the ones trying to oppress. When Evangelical leaders like Pat Robertson call Muslims "evil," and "Satanic," then compare the to Hitler and, say that Islam "is not a peaceful religion that wants to coexist. They want to coexist until they can control, dominate and then, if need be, destroy,", it is alright, but when drug addict/Evangelical preachers are called bad people it is "intolerance." When Evangelicals like Jerry Falwell say that America cannot accommodate ideas "that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth," it is "God's will," but when one of theirs is arrested for trying to control, and dominate children it is oppression.

Where are these self-proclaimed champions of tolerance when atheists are attacked by Christians, because they don't believe in God, or even when Evangelical Christians attack other Christians because they worship the same god differently (occurrences of which have according to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission have risen sharply in the last few years)? They were standing behind the attackers pressing them on, that's where.

Evangelicals, and other religious folk, need to stand back and face the truth--you can't have it both ways: if religion is involved with government things like this are inevitable, so my advice to these hypocrites is simple:
Shut the Hell up! And, Be careful what you pray for



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Friday, February 9, 2007

Rev Spitz--Terrorist Sympathizer/Ron Reader

Well folks, yesterday marks one of the proudest moments of my Internet career. I obtained a special new fan, and, better yet, was given enough material for several posts, which will allow me to avoid not having something to Rant about for quite some time.

Yesterday I had the following reply to my post "Jesus Love the Little Children":

Rev. Don Spitz said...
You are quite the anti-Christian bigot. Suffice it to say, most, if not all problems on the planet earth are from people like you who reject Jesus Christ. Our prisons are filled with people, like you, who reject Jesus Christ. Most if not all rapes, murders, robberies and thefts are committed by people, like you, who reject Jesus Christ. AIDS is mainly spread by people, like you, who reject Jesus Christ and have sex outside of marriage or else like children with AIDS get it from people, like you, who reject Jesus Christ. I hope you will turn from your sins and receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and escape the fires of eternal hell. Turning from your sins and giving your life to Jesus Christ is the only way you can escape the fires of hell and receive everlasting life. If you persist in your sins and continue to turn your back on Jesus Christ, you will be lost forever.

SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life.

February 8, 2007 12:06 PM


Rev Spitz read only the post he commented on and took just 8:15 to read and respond to the post.

I was quite honored by his visit for a couple of reasons:

1)--As Michelle so eloquently put it, I had garnered my first "firebreathing raving godbag" troll.

2)--My visitor is not your run-of-the-mill Jesus freak, in fact, among the Christian-terrorist-nutbag demographic, Donald Spitz (the Rev) is something of a hero/media darling.

The Rev is the self-appointed spokesman/apologist for The Army of God, a fringe group of Christian fanatics whose major claim to fame for more than a decade has been the supporting of the cause of American domestic terrorists.

There is so much material here that I hardly know where to begin. But, I do know that to put it all in one post would make said post quite large, and after the post that the Rev commented on I promised myself that I would try not to make another post of that size for a while.

So that I can also tackle other issues that come to mind, I will most likely do several posts about the Rev and his entertaining attack on me.

In this post I will tackle the obvious starting point and address his comment.

First, a general observation about his comment. He did a better job with his comment of proving my point than anything I could have written. But, his fanaticism, and methods have a history of helping his opposition (more on this in a future post).

So, now to addressing the comment--

First we have the name calling intro:
"You are quite the anti-Christian bigot".

This line goes a long way toward showing the Rev's tendency to read things into what he reads instead of reading it, his tendency to make prejudicial assumptions based on little or no knowledge, and his lack of familiarity with the English language.

Had the Rev actually read the post then formed an opinion, instead of reading his opinion into the post, he would have seen the following lines:
"...my attacks on religions, primarily Christianity, have a serious side which stems largely from my opinion that fanatical religious beliefs are dangerous."

"I won’t go so far as to say that patriotism, ethnic pride, or even religious belief are in and of themselves evil, but such things in the wrong hands can be very dangerous."
My post is obviously directed at the fanaticism and actions of the subject of the post. I am not anti-Christian, or even anti-Christianity, otherwise I would actively engage in attempts to "convert" the 95% of the people in my life who are Christian, and definitely wouldn't have tutored religious studies at the Catholic University I attended. However, I will admit, as I have done for many years, that religious beliefs, in my opinion, are to knowledge, and social progress, what castration is to one's ability to procreate. I am anti-fanatic-of-any-religion, and, as the Rev and his people show, for good reason.

The Rev's opinion that I am anti-Christian stems not from anything I have said about Christians, but rather from his delusion that he represents true Christianity. So, when I attacked the wacko fanaticism that he holds to, and used his pal Rudolph as an example of the dangers of such ideas, he became defensive and lashed out, which is in stark contrast to the teachings of his dear Lord:
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 5:38-39 KJV Bible


Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Matthew 5:43-47 KJV Bible


As I am not bound by the words of a mythological creature I may lash out all I want, but the Rev is supposed to be an example of faith--so far he's not doing such a good job. His imaginary boss would be pissed.

Then there's the term bigot.

Webster's defines the word bigot as:
One who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

So, he is comparing my views on Christianity to those of white-supremacists. Being a bigot, entails hatred of a group, so it would follow that I could no more love a Christian than a Klansman could love a black, much less marry one. Well, as it turns out, I did love AND marry a Christian, and not one of those Christian-when-it-suits-my-needs Christians, but rather an honest to goodness actual Christian whose faith was a large, and generally positive, part of her life.

My late-wife was a devout Catholic, we were married in the church, and both of my children were christened in the church. Admittedly, my children have become quite agnostic in their beliefs, but they know that they have the freedom to pursue other beliefs without fear of reprisal, which is more latitude than I was ever given by my fundamentalist wacko father.

You can't get more Christian than Catholics. The Catholic church along with the Eastern Orthodox church is the closest thing on the planet to being the original Christian church. The other 130,000+ Christian sects, (including the Rev's little group--Pentecostals) throughout the World are merely offshoots who have manipulated the words in the Bible to suit there own needs.

Of course a bigot, according to Webster's, could also entail being:
A person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
This also couldn't apply to me because I am show no intolerance to people who hold beliefs different to my own. Once again I turn to my late-wife. She was Catholic--I an atheist, she was "pro-life"--I pro-choice, she voted for the first Prez Bush-I voted for Clinton. Not only proof that I am not intolerant, but also that opposites not only attract, but can have a loving wonderful marriage.

Then there's the prejudice of a bigot--I did not prejudge anyone whom I mentioned in my post or even the Rev, because of their religion. I researched Becky Fischer, watched the film, and read her website's various documents before I formed an opinion. As for the Rev, not only have I researched him, but I actually remember his being on television, and remember the terrorists that he supports (also, more on this in a future post).

But, this definition would definitely mean that the Rev is a Bigot, and, as a result, a hypocrite.

As for the cause of all of the World's problems, the population of prisons, people with AIDS, and criminals being people like me, that is not so easy to prove without a great deal of research, but I will say that it is unlikely, because Atheists like myself are an extremely small minority compared to Christians, so statistically his assertions are doubtful. I have never been in prison, don't have AIDS, never cheated on my wife, and am not a member of the Bush White House, any religious denomination, or Al Qaeda, so have not caused the World's problems. I will say however, that there are more convicted murderers, and thieves among his list of heroes than among mine (again, more later).

But, if he means people who are not true Christians, he is definitely right, because as we have seen, anyone who disagrees with him is (in his fantasy world) not a true Christian. This eliminates every human on the face of the planet except for a handful of people who share his beliefs, a good many of which are either in prison or have already been executed for their crimes (details ..you guessed it--in a future post).

Then we have his saying that I am bound for Hell. Well, once again he is in violation of the words of his sky-pixie:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:22 KJV Bible
For those unfamiliar with ancient Greek, Raca means (in modern terms) "your opinions are moronic." The Rev is bound for his own fire, poor guy.

Then we have the Rev's own version of talking to one's self. As it turns out this too is in violation of the words of Jesus:

The part of the prayer in which he asks for eternal life is in violation of Matthew 6:8 which says:
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
E.G. don't ask for things because God already knows what you need. To ask for things is to show distrust of God's will and knowledge.

Then there is the whole prayer itself, which is in direct violation of Gods command contained in Matthew 6:9-13:
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
This is the only prayer you are to use, and its main theme is being given the ability to forgive other sinners, not a reward for yourself which is greedy. Don't believe me:
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV Bible


Yes, Rev--you are in deep shit if your sky-god exists.

Well that covers my reply to his comment. Being a person who believes in a tit-for-tat approach to blogging, I left the following comment on the Rev's blog:
Well Rev it seems that you have been busy trolling the web and attacking people.

I came here to challenge you to defend the comment left on my last post if you think you can.

So, I do hereby challenge you to defend your positions as a self-appointed soldier of God. If you in fact have God and truth on your side then your beliefs should be unrepraochable, and stand up to scrutiny, because your god is supposed to be all powerful and infallible.

I personally feel sorry for Christianity if its self-appointed defender cannot defend it.

I also feel badly for all of the actual decent Christians in the World because they are so often represented by wing-nuts like yourself.

I look forward to more of your infantile ravings and leave you with the following quote from a self-proclaimed Christian who reminds me a lot of you:

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."


p. 46 Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitler

Good day sir--I look forward to hearing from you.

11:33 AM [ 8 February 2007]
I'm not overly confident that he will take up my challenge, but if he does it promises to be fun, and I promise to share it with you.

Unless I do receive a reply, my next post concerning the Rev will most likely entail a discussion of the Rev's background and co-wackos.

Thursday, February 8, 2007

Jesus Loves the Little Children

Anyone who knows me, or has perused this blog knows that I tend to go into religious conversations with sarcasm, and jokes. And, many people have told me that I have a sadistic streak when it comes to religious discussions, and that my attacks on Christians are similar to challenging a quadriplegic to a foot race.

This may or may not be true (probably is), but my attacks on religions, primarily Christianity, have a serious side which stems largely from my opinion that fanatical religious beliefs are dangerous.

This opinion has been justified time and time again throughout my life: Jonestown, Waco, Oklahoma City, Al Qaeda, Eric Robert Rudolph, and, on and on and on... But, never in my life have I seen Christian radicalism that sickened me more than what I have been looking into for the last couple of days.

While working on Monday's post I came across a mention of a documentary DVD entitled Jesus Camp. Anytime I see the word Jesus it peaks my interest, so I checked it out. In this post I intend to tell, and show you what I found.

Before I continue, I want to warn you that this post will likely entail an expenditure of a great deal of time by the reader. For this I apologize, but I feel that this subject warrants a good deal of time to fully appreciate.

BACKGROUND:

Jesus Camp is a documentary from film makers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady of Loki Films; an independent documentary film company whose stated goal is:
"Making films that evoke a deeper understanding of the human experience with all its complexities, high stakes and humor."
The film follows some children to and through the Kids on Fire Pentecostal summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota run by Becky Fischer of Kids In Ministry International (KIMI).

KIMI is an Evangelical organization whose purpose is to:
"Teach, train, and equip children to do the work of ministry and release them in their giftings and callings."

The film was released last year, and made the film festival rounds, including Michael Moore's Traverse City film festival, where it won the "Scariest Movie" award (for good reason, as I intend to show).

Evangelic homophobic solicitor of male prostitutesThe film also features an appearance by Ted Haggard who was (at the time the documentary was filmed) the head of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) a coalition of Evangelical churches claiming a membership of over 4.5 million members.

Haggard has since resigned his post at the NAE due to a scandal involving his having a three year relationship with a male prostitute and methamphetamine use. Haggard has since confessed to "sexual immorality", and will probably be forgiven by his deluded followers. Before his downfall, Haggard was among a select group of church leaders who had weekly conference calls with the White House concerning issues such as a national ban on gay marriage.

THE FILM:

Okay, now on to the film.

Jesus Camp PosterI intend to use clips of the film throughout this post, but if you like, the entire thing can be viewed online here. It is broken into 17 clips which can be viewed one at a time or as a whole. I would recommend watching the whole thing, but it is almost an hour and a half long, so I have placed a few clips within this post to show the points I'm talking about.

The film starts out the way most independent documentaries do, with an audio and video collage designed to give you a taste of what the film makers are going to 'discuss'. Then, in clip two, we are shown a portion of a typical Pentecostal service that gives the viewer a good idea of what Becky Fischer is all about.

For those of you who don't know, The Pentecostal movement began in the late 1890's in the mountains of North Carolina, USA, and for a while was a regional anomaly staying mostly in the Appalachian regions of North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky and West Virginia.

Over time it has become a fragmented group of over 11,000 different Evangelical denominations including the Church of God with Signs Following, who are the infamous "snake handlers" who believe that true faith, and the grace of God can be shown by handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison.

While Pentecostal churches differ in details of their faith, and teaching, there are some core beliefs they all adhere to.

They believe in baptism by water as most Christian groups do, but they also believe in what they call baptism in the Holy Spirit. They believe that once a person has been "bathed" in the Holy Spirit they achieve a higher connection with God.

This higher connection manifests, according to believers through certain gifts, such as the ability to prophesize, and to "speak in tongues." When a person is speaking in tongues he/she basically babbles incoherently. For a non-believer it looks quite silly, but for a believer it is a form of holy communication. For many Pentecostals 'tongues' is THE sign of having been bathed in the Holy Spirit--no babble = no connection. Therefore, they all babble.

The baptisms are followed, according to adherents, by what is known as sanctification. When a person has been 'sanctified in the Lord' he/she has had the effects of their past sins wiped away--similar to the absolution of a Catholic.

Public repentance of one's sins is very important and is often a major part of Pentecostal services. Proselytizing is also very important, and is what makes them so annoying to run into.

Pentecostals tend to be poor and/or rural, poorly educated, and frankly quite annoying. They are also a group with whom I have (unfortunately) had quite a bit of experience with having grown up in Kentucky, and living for a good while in Asheville, NC quite near the epicenter of the Pentecostal movement.

I have, out of curiosity, been to many Pentecostal services. For someone like myself, all of the babbling, screaming, crying, and mayhem during these services can be a mixture of entertainment and quite honestly fear. For adherents, they can be a source of what I would term religious ecstasy.

The beliefs and drama of Pentecostal churches lend themselves quite well to people whose lives feel devoid of meaning and/or happiness, after all, what better promise can be made to someone who is suffering through the hardships of poverty and rural drudgery than the powers and love of Heaven. This is especially true for children who are given a sense of power and purpose far beyond what they could realistically expect otherwise: something shown quite well in this documentary.

Back to the film.

Clip three is very important. This clip contains an interview with Fischer wherein she discusses how easy it is to spread her message to children, and inadvertently shows why people like her prey (no pun intended) on children. She then discusses why it's important to use this predation to fight the evil followers of Islam.

I won't interject what I see her saying, and why it scares me, because nothing I could say would do it justice. You have to watch it to really see what's going on. She also discusses George Bush, but more on that subject later.

(View the clip at the link above, here, or below.)



As the film moves on we are shown the type of environment that the children in the film are raised. Many Evangelical children are home schooled which is a major tool of indoctrination. Homeschooling a child can be a good thing if the parent doing the schooling ensures that the child gets a proper education, but, most of the time, that is not the motivating factor in a parent's decision to home school.

The vast majority of the time a parent opts for homeschooling because they don't want their children exposed to ideas contrary to their own--especially scientific subjects like evolution, and social topics such as; tolerance of other races, religions, and lifestyles. This idea is also seen in cult situations, where one of the most powerful tools used is isolation from outside influences.

As a result, many of these children become incapable of participating in the larger society as an adult, and end up perpetuating the belief structure they are taught as a child. Clips 4,5,and 6 show the mechanics and result of this quite well.

In the last five minutes of clip seven we begin to see the indoctrination take shape. Fischer begins breaking down the children, and giving them their only source of hope--her ideas. It is at this point, that the film really starts to become disturbing.

(View the clip at the link above, here, or below.)



In clip eight we are shown where this indoctrination is headed with statements and messages from the instructors like: "How many want to be those who will give up their life for Jesus?" Down with the government. Put God back into government. "Make war." "Are you a part of it or not?"

While these people do a good job of putting forth their agenda regarding the government, this same agenda was summarized better more than a half-century ago:

"Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country] … I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press—in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past … [few] years."

The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922–1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pp. 871–872.


Sound familiar? It does to me.

The Fischer philosophy on government continues in clip thirteen when the film takes an almost surreal twist as the children are asked to bless and pray over a cardboard cutout of George Bush. They are then informed that they are the most important generation in American history (talk about a sense of meaning) and are lectured on the evils of abortion. Followed by being taught a ritual using small plastic dolls to pray against abortion.

(View the clip at the link above, here, or below.)



Following the beatification of Bush, and the demonizing of abortion, we are introduced to Ted Haggard, not quite as disturbing as the other clips, but good for seeing a hypocrite in action. (You can view the clip here)

The last few clips of the film follow some of the children after they leave the camp, and show them putting their indoctrination to work, by proselytising and participating in an anti-abortion rally.

Clip fifteen ends with two of the children talking about how wonderful it is not to be afraid of dying in God's service, and how cool it would be to be a martyr.

The final clip before the end credits is especially haunting. In this clip we get really good insight to just has insane this leader and teacher of children truly is.

(View the clip at the link above, here, or below.)



And, in case you were wondering, Fischer likes the film. She believes that it casts a positive, or at least fair light on her and her cause. In contrast, Haggard felt that the film made him look too extreme.

Many people who see films or television shows like this have a hard time understanding how anyone can succumb to such a thing, but, like I said before fanatic Evangelicals prey primarily on the type of people who are the most susceptible to indoctrination: the poor, those without hope, the undereducated, the downtrodden, and especially children. Religions and governments have been doing the same thing for millennia.

Whether it’s the indoctrination of Catholic children through ritual, the saying of the Pledge of Allegiance by American school children, or the telling a small child that he or she has been given a gift and/or mission from an almighty god, all forms of establishment use a form of indoctrinating children to achieve order and control. How else could a man like Jim Jones convince hundreds of people to commit mass suicide and murder?

I won’t go so far as to say that patriotism, ethnic pride, or even religious belief are in and of themselves evil, but such things in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. Look at what Hitler was able to do to a proud honorable people who had been smacked down, and then punished for World War I. By manipulating the suffering, pride, bigotries, and desire for a better life of the German people he was able to commit atrocities the likes of which the World had never seen. And Hitler knew well that children were especially susceptible to fanatic indoctrination:

"While the older generation could still waver, the younger generation has pledged itself to us and is ours, body and soul!"

Adolf Hitler, Speech at Nuremberg, 1934

Becky Fischer, and others like her, well know this idea.

There are also the people who will say:

"This group of radicals does not represent Christianity as a whole”


Maybe not, but Osama Bin Laden does not represent Islam as a whole, yet it is his fanatic followers that have brought us to where we are today, along with radicals on the other side that continue to up the ante.

Then there are the people who watch this and try to convince themselves that a fringe group of radicals could never truly impact their lives. Much the same thoughts were around in the 1930’s when people thought that the ridiculous events in Germany would stay put, and again in the 1990’s when radicals in Afghanistan were hardly seen as a real threat to the rest of the World.

One quote that nicely summarizes the beliefs of these two different groups of people, as well as of all the Becky Fischers of the World is the following:

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

p. 46 Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitler


In the World as it is today; full of fear, doubt, suffering, and struggle there are many people who are susceptible to the rantings of lunatics and the promises of a better life to come through their teachings. And, there are many people willing to manipulate these people, and guide them to their own destruction. Don’t believe me? Watch the news, read the newspaper, or visit a local church.

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